New MUD?

Ghaleon · Post by **Ghaleon** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:47 am

Any of you WG pro's interested in creating a RPG similiar to MajorMUD for some extra earned income lemme know your price.

banjaxster · Post by **banjaxster** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:46 am

Someone is already doing that : www.greatermud.com/forums/

Toyduck · Post by **Toyduck** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:14 am

banjaxster wrote:Someone is already doing that : www.greatermud.com/forums/

Re: Stand Alone BBS Software or Basically Door Game
Â« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2006, 09:24:15 AM Â»
Reply with quote
Quote from: KalEl on May 11, 2006, 06:48:32 AM
Now what about people who already have worldgroup and majormud... will there be a greatermud that could be worked through worldgroup. The sysop on the board I play at normally wondered cuz of the costs of a second ip/cpu and internet line. I'm sure he barely breaks even as it is so would there be something like this for people. I know its a little early in devolpment to ask alot of the questions i have asked about this.

Kal
I don't know much about WorldGroup. I do know it's horribly bloated for what is needed to run a text game like Major MUD. However, I realize people have spent a lot of time and money getting WG setups working properly.

I wonder if WG has a way to set up a protocol that can connect, as a server, to another server via a port. I know I've seen things like this in the past on BBSs, where an entire BBS connects and the users from the different BBSs are able to interact with one another. Better yet, would be a way to get WG to act as a proxy between GMUD and the user. We could set up a special login on the GMUD server where WG would "telnet" (on a different port) over to GMUD when the user enters the GMUD "module", and ideally it should automatically enter the user information that GMUD requires to login. I don't know how easy or practical this is in practice, but I can make the lightweight telnet server I created, (TGS - Telnet Game Server Wink ) login extremely flexible, and could probably create custom solutions if necessary. But someone will have to give me all the details on what WG can do and how it does it.

================

Anyone got an answer for this?

Toyduck

banjaxster · Post by **banjaxster** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:58 pm

I have a synchronet bbs as my door game server and I have it setup that when they type O they rlogin to the door game server automaticly,same with my tradewars game server.They type W and are rlogined right to the server.
If i decide to get greatermud I will do this ways also,It's fast and the people dont have to do anything.

Toyduck · Post by **Toyduck** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:59 pm

banjaxster wrote:I have a synchronet bbs as my door game server and I have it setup that when they type O they rlogin to the door game server automaticly,same with my tradewars game server.They type W and are rlogined right to the server.
If i decide to get greatermud I will do this ways also,It's fast and the people dont have to do anything.

OK, I understand that part, what is this DMA server I have been reading about? What's the difference there? --

Toyduck

Malakai · Post by **Malakai** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:09 pm

1: DMA server uses rlogin, but adds a lot more information. Rlogin itself can only take so much information and pass it through, but dma passes user keys, age, and a lot of other information.

2: DMA server also allows more than 1 bbs connect to it, as opposed to 1, because of possible nick and password conflicts. For example, if I were to use the nick Malakai on bbs 1 and some one else uses Malakai on bbs 2, and they are both connected to an rlogin gamenet server, those nicks would collide. What would most likely happen is that the first one to connect would be accepted, while the 2nd nick that tried to connect would get some sort of password failure and therefore would not be able to log in to the board.

So, DMA basically says "here's a name and password for your board so that we can recognize you" - Malakai from board 1 would have an identifier that he is from board 1, while Malakai from board 2 would also have an identifier that says he's from board 2 so that there are no conclicts.

3: How the DMA actually goes in to the board and bypasses every thing else, enters a specific module, etc, is a mystery. If we knew how this worked exactly, some one else could code their own DMA server and clients.

frcorey · Post by **frcorey** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:24 pm

I bet dan or rick could do this.
they both have and know the source code to mbbs and wg.

Toyduck · Post by **Toyduck** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:23 am

Malakai wrote:
3: How the DMA actually goes in to the board and bypasses every thing else, enters a specific module, etc, is a mystery. If we knew how this worked exactly, some one else could code their own DMA server and clients.

Ok, I guess I just have to get around the letters 'DMA' which I am used to thinking of as 'direct memory access'. Which seems to me would be difficult to control with numerous systems connected.

Wouldn't a DMA based server be better to utilize than several 'door' systems attached to one BBS?

Toyduck

dspain · Post by **dspain** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:15 am

banjaxster wrote:Someone is already doing that : www.greatermud.com/forums/

well if we can get a bunch of people all releasing some good muds that will be awesome.

dspain · Post by **dspain** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:19 am

i can say this running majormud vs tele-arena vs othermuds notice majormud is the only one that runs the hd light into the ground?
hes wrong about being too highly bloated to run a game like majormud, actually more full of shit.
people knock WG constantly especially over at GM cause they didnt wanna use originality, their very first version was a 100% mock up of majormud.

ive seen the majormud code the way it allocated all of its data is pointless causing all that lag.

to answr the other question DMA would work if they wrote a rlogin option to the GM server like the tradewars game server, can run telnet or rlogin and set the port, if you use rlogin it passes your name to the server and logs ya right in.

gonna be interesting to see how this goes.

dspain · Post by **dspain** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:22 am

frcorey wrote:I bet dan or rick could do this.
they both have and know the source code to mbbs and wg.

i actually was playing with something using galrlgn and galrlgnd but with my move to georgia and all i lost so much time.

i know a guy that worked on the TWGS and have looked at the source on how it passes the username and info but cant get rlogin in Wg to hold it.
definately a plus for the future though.

every other rlogin server i have seen out there has that feature except galacticomm's so its definately a must for wg.

with what rick wants to do with wg in the future im sure this will happen.
i may just whip up something simple and see where i can go with it.

dspain · Post by **dspain** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:24 am

Malakai wrote:1: DMA server uses rlogin, but adds a lot more information. Rlogin itself can only take so much information and pass it through, but dma passes user keys, age, and a lot of other information.

2: DMA server also allows more than 1 bbs connect to it, as opposed to 1, because of possible nick and password conflicts. For example, if I were to use the nick Malakai on bbs 1 and some one else uses Malakai on bbs 2, and they are both connected to an rlogin gamenet server, those nicks would collide. What would most likely happen is that the first one to connect would be accepted, while the 2nd nick that tried to connect would get some sort of password failure and therefore would not be able to log in to the board.

So, DMA basically says "here's a name and password for your board so that we can recognize you" - Malakai from board 1 would have an identifier that he is from board 1, while Malakai from board 2 would also have an identifier that says he's from board 2 so that there are no conclicts.

3: How the DMA actually goes in to the board and bypasses every thing else, enters a specific module, etc, is a mystery. If we knew how this worked exactly, some one else could code their own DMA server and clients.

the way you pass dma info in vircomm's dma shows that it sends em to that module which is stored as a string from the MDF, that part i have successfully bench tested, its holding the nme/pw i gp on.
ive had it log in the name but still get stuck at asking for password.
havent been able to bypass that yet...YET

Toyduck · Post by **Toyduck** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:52 pm

dspain wrote:
the way you pass dma info in vircomm's dma shows that it sends em to that module which is stored as a string from the MDF, that part i have successfully bench tested, its holding the nme/pw i gp on.
ive had it log in the name but still get stuck at asking for password.
havent been able to bypass that yet...YET

Well hell, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you then!

Toyduck

Vitoc · Post by **Vitoc** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:56 pm

dspain wrote:i can say this running majormud vs tele-arena vs othermuds notice majormud is the only one that runs the hd light into the ground?
hes wrong about being too highly bloated to run a game like majormud, actually more full of shit.
people knock WG constantly especially over at GM cause they didnt wanna use originality, their very first version was a 100% mock up of majormud.

ive seen the majormud code the way it allocated all of its data is pointless causing all that lag.

to answr the other question DMA would work if they wrote a rlogin option to the GM server like the tradewars game server, can run telnet or rlogin and set the port, if you use rlogin it passes your name to the server and logs ya right in.

gonna be interesting to see how this goes.

Hi everyone, came across this post in a search I did on Google. I'm the coder for GreaterMUD and I was the one who was originally made the "bloated" statement regarding WG that was pasted earlier. Sorry to drag this topic up so late, but I'd like to at least explain why I made that statement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but sending data to and receiving data from clients via the telnet protocol is just a small portion of what World Group is capable of, right?

GMud's telnet server is about as stripped down as you can possibly get. The entire telnet server is a single executable file, all of 60KB, and there's literally no footprint; no registry changes or extra processes or any of that. You run it, it pops up a GUI console, choose a port, click the start button, it scans for any compatible DLLs in the directory and boom, you're serving telnet requests.

Now I'm not going to argue with the fact WG has waaaaaaaaay more features than our telnet server, because it totally has us beat there. Heck, look at the description of worldgroup from Galacticomm themselves:
"Our flagship product is a fusion of the best of workgroup/e-mail tools, commercial online services, and BBS technology. More than a workgroup tool, it's a Worldgroup tool - an online software platform that brings the world to you.

Running Worldgroup is like running your own America Online. You can offer users a full menu of interactive services - e-mail, group messaging, file sharing, chat rooms, polls, and much more. In fact, there's no one that even comes close to offering as many plug-and-play applications under one roof. Best of all, our software has the most extensive set of configuration options of all portal-building software, giving you the power to create your online vision as you see fit."

America Online, seriously? Who needs that to run a telnet game? I've played Major MUD on a lot of boards over the years, and the only things sysops really seemed to care about was whether it could run a game and handle telnet requests lag free, and as I said people spent a lot of money building setups around WG.

And for the record, I never said WG was too bloated to run the game. I said it's waaaaay too much program for the boards that only want to run a game which IMO represents the vast majority of the remaining Major MUD realms out there. It's like going out and buying the latest greatest Alienware gaming rig just to exchange E-mail with a friend; sure it can do it, but it's overkill.

dspain · Post by **dspain** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:39 am

Vitoc wrote:
dspain wrote:i can say this running majormud vs tele-arena vs othermuds notice majormud is the only one that runs the hd light into the ground?
hes wrong about being too highly bloated to run a game like majormud, actually more full of shit.
people knock WG constantly especially over at GM cause they didnt wanna use originality, their very first version was a 100% mock up of majormud.

ive seen the majormud code the way it allocated all of its data is pointless causing all that lag.

to answr the other question DMA would work if they wrote a rlogin option to the GM server like the tradewars game server, can run telnet or rlogin and set the port, if you use rlogin it passes your name to the server and logs ya right in.

gonna be interesting to see how this goes.
Hi everyone, came across this post in a search I did on Google. I'm the coder for GreaterMUD and I was the one who was originally made the "bloated" statement regarding WG that was pasted earlier. Sorry to drag this topic up so late, but I'd like to at least explain why I made that statement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but sending data to and receiving data from clients via the telnet protocol is just a small portion of what World Group is capable of, right?

GMud's telnet server is about as stripped down as you can possibly get. The entire telnet server is a single executable file, all of 60KB, and there's literally no footprint; no registry changes or extra processes or any of that. You run it, it pops up a GUI console, choose a port, click the start button, it scans for any compatible DLLs in the directory and boom, you're serving telnet requests.

Now I'm not going to argue with the fact WG has waaaaaaaaay more features than our telnet server, because it totally has us beat there. Heck, look at the description of worldgroup from Galacticomm themselves:
"Our flagship product is a fusion of the best of workgroup/e-mail tools, commercial online services, and BBS technology. More than a workgroup tool, it's a Worldgroup tool - an online software platform that brings the world to you.

Running Worldgroup is like running your own America Online. You can offer users a full menu of interactive services - e-mail, group messaging, file sharing, chat rooms, polls, and much more. In fact, there's no one that even comes close to offering as many plug-and-play applications under one roof. Best of all, our software has the most extensive set of configuration options of all portal-building software, giving you the power to create your online vision as you see fit."

America Online, seriously? Who needs that to run a telnet game? I've played Major MUD on a lot of boards over the years, and the only things sysops really seemed to care about was whether it could run a game and handle telnet requests lag free, and as I said people spent a lot of money building setups around WG.

And for the record, I never said WG was too bloated to run the game. I said it's waaaaay too much program for the boards that only want to run a game which IMO represents the vast majority of the remaining Major MUD realms out there. It's like going out and buying the latest greatest Alienware gaming rig just to exchange E-mail with a friend; sure it can do it, but it's overkill.

i agree there, for simply running a game you want the basic essentials. i too am coding a majormud like game to bring the great game as majormud back to the people in a cost efficient manner yet keeping the things they like about the game while pissing off as little as possible.

however i dont lag down like the majormud kernels and lets face it this goes waaaay back to the majorbbs version of the game and has not changed in the newest one.

metro is lazy, im glad to see other people doing this and i wish you nothing but luck in the greatermud project, drop by every now and then and keep us informed.

and to go along with what you said yeah 60kb is about right for a telnet server, i built one in c# i was gonna make a mud with but decided to stick with c for the time being, i may reopen the c# mud project in the future.

frcorey · Post by **frcorey** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:23 am

Vitoc wrote:
dspain wrote:i can say this running majormud vs tele-arena vs othermuds notice majormud is the only one that runs the hd light into the ground?
hes wrong about being too highly bloated to run a game like majormud, actually more full of shit.
people knock WG constantly especially over at GM cause they didnt wanna use originality, their very first version was a 100% mock up of majormud.

ive seen the majormud code the way it allocated all of its data is pointless causing all that lag.

to answr the other question DMA would work if they wrote a rlogin option to the GM server like the tradewars game server, can run telnet or rlogin and set the port, if you use rlogin it passes your name to the server and logs ya right in.

gonna be interesting to see how this goes.
Hi everyone, came across this post in a search I did on Google. I'm the coder for GreaterMUD and I was the one who was originally made the "bloated" statement regarding WG that was pasted earlier. Sorry to drag this topic up so late, but I'd like to at least explain why I made that statement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but sending data to and receiving data from clients via the telnet protocol is just a small portion of what World Group is capable of, right?

GMud's telnet server is about as stripped down as you can possibly get. The entire telnet server is a single executable file, all of 60KB, and there's literally no footprint; no registry changes or extra processes or any of that. You run it, it pops up a GUI console, choose a port, click the start button, it scans for any compatible DLLs in the directory and boom, you're serving telnet requests.

Now I'm not going to argue with the fact WG has waaaaaaaaay more features than our telnet server, because it totally has us beat there. Heck, look at the description of worldgroup from Galacticomm themselves:
"Our flagship product is a fusion of the best of workgroup/e-mail tools, commercial online services, and BBS technology. More than a workgroup tool, it's a Worldgroup tool - an online software platform that brings the world to you.

Running Worldgroup is like running your own America Online. You can offer users a full menu of interactive services - e-mail, group messaging, file sharing, chat rooms, polls, and much more. In fact, there's no one that even comes close to offering as many plug-and-play applications under one roof. Best of all, our software has the most extensive set of configuration options of all portal-building software, giving you the power to create your online vision as you see fit."

America Online, seriously? Who needs that to run a telnet game? I've played Major MUD on a lot of boards over the years, and the only things sysops really seemed to care about was whether it could run a game and handle telnet requests lag free, and as I said people spent a lot of money building setups around WG.

And for the record, I never said WG was too bloated to run the game. I said it's waaaaay too much program for the boards that only want to run a game which IMO represents the vast majority of the remaining Major MUD realms out there. It's like going out and buying the latest greatest Alienware gaming rig just to exchange E-mail with a friend; sure it can do it, but it's overkill.

But, with worldgroup you can run it as bare bones as you like with no code changes, because most all the
features are DLL and you can unlink them from the main core. like, if I only wanted chat I could remove
any other moduals I wanted, forums, files, account, etc. when I was playing with my wg 3.2 years ago, I
ran just the main core with no moduals connected, just the main exe and the main core and that was all.
no features, no log in or off. I had just the bare wg core running to see what it did. the system core is the heart of the wg system, and not much more.

Malakai · Post by **Malakai** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:26 pm

I wish they would fix the embedded lag/delays in majormud myself. I've noticed that some rooms, you can go back and forth in as many times as you want and not lag, but yet other rooms, you go back and forth in and it has that 2 second or so delay each and every time.

I suppose it doesn't matter when most of the players are afk and their scripting clients are playing for them 99.9% of the time though.

dspain · Post by **dspain** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:52 pm

Malakai wrote:I wish they would fix the embedded lag/delays in majormud myself. I've noticed that some rooms, you can go back and forth in as many times as you want and not lag, but yet other rooms, you go back and forth in and it has that 2 second or so delay each and every time.

I suppose it doesn't matter when most of the players are afk and their scripting clients are playing for them 99.9% of the time though.

i agree you know last night i was tinkering with some DB stuff and made a small game module where i could add all the items in the game right there on the fly through a text driven editor.
so i played with it a little more and made the items, saved the database and instantly conjured the item in my inventory. so i said what the hell did it with some rooms, couple monsters, simple combat system then next thing i know i could make a room instantly walk in that room, make a monster instantly conjure the bastard, and hell make an item to kill him with, then i thoughta game like that is what WG needs, yeah we got ta, and majormud pretty goddamned embedded basically you walk their path for the game, or if its majormud you mod it and theres still issues with that, but a mud where you could say get a team of about 4 and make the game within the game, now thats something worth looking at.

so here it is 11:48pm EST i was supposed to goto bed last night around midnight but this thing has gotten me all worked up, right now close to 12hrs later i have made a wrld of around 22 rooms, 8 monsters, and 9 items and playing the damn thing, a game like this without a direct path of play i think will encourage more live play. cause ya never know when a gameop will logon make a 20 room quest area create an item only for that quest and run it when its over remove the room.

games like thayt is what i wanna see for wg, yeah maybe its too late for new games to come to surface in wg ive been told but i disagree, hell instead of having to make a telnet server, web server for it, acocunting and security wg already has all that just make the game.
and on top of that you can still offer the other cool stuff.

i talked to toyduck last night and apparently thats what mud magic did but is bugged to only 5 rooms, well im at 22 rooms and still have allocated space for 9,722 more

just to test lag i made a routine to fill all the room by creating a database completely full, and yep i still walk around no lag, so ill keep ya informed how this comes out, im gonna send a copy to don drake to put on his system and we'll see how this goes.

a game like this as a developer wont be hard cause i dont have to create the game data and the game reads the db on init and if its empty adds atleast one thing in there so people can enter with no problems.

im interested to see how this thing turns out, im calling it the Worldgroup MUD Engine, yeah kinda generic i know

Malakai · Post by **Malakai** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:10 pm

I still can't help but wish for worldgroup itself to be updated. There are only a few big things that need to be updated in it, such as an easy way to upgrade it with sql, php, perl and cgi-scripting and a built in news server, one that you don't have to rely on someone else to push feeds to you.

Some of the small things I'd like to see are: long filename support, the telnet IRC client fixed for longer commands and shortcuts for services and such, easier config information for setting up stuff like internet email, and fix whatever causes the forums and file libraries to sometimes time out.

While you certainly wouldn't be able to run worldgroup on a 486 any more, with sql and php and all of that stuff, many of those things could do the database and processing for bbs stuff, as well as flash, active html, and perl scripts, to make it more interactive.

If I sat down and thought about all of the things in worldgroup I'd personally like to get fixed, the list would probably be less than 25 things, only one or two big ones and the rest fairly small.

dspain · Post by **dspain** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:13 pm

Malakai wrote:I still can't help but wish for worldgroup itself to be updated. There are only a few big things that need to be updated in it, such as an easy way to upgrade it with sql, php, perl and cgi-scripting and a built in news server, one that you don't have to rely on someone else to push feeds to you.

Some of the small things I'd like to see are: long filename support, the telnet IRC client fixed for longer commands and shortcuts for services and such, easier config information for setting up stuff like internet email, and fix whatever causes the forums and file libraries to sometimes time out.

While you certainly wouldn't be able to run worldgroup on a 486 any more, with sql and php and all of that stuff, many of those things could do the database and processing for bbs stuff, as well as flash, active html, and perl scripts, to make it more interactive.

If I sat down and thought about all of the things in worldgroup I'd personally like to get fixed, the list would probably be less than 25 things, only one or two big ones and the rest fairly small.

build the list and email it to me some of those things i have on mine already.

Toyduck · Post by **Toyduck** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:34 pm

Malakai wrote: While you certainly wouldn't be able to run worldgroup on a 486 any more, with sql and php and all of that stuff, many of those things could do the database and processing for bbs stuff, as well as flash, active html, and perl scripts, to make it more interactive..

Does anyone even use 486 class computers anymore? After talking with Dan I started playing with my copy of 2.0 and I can see the some of the advantages Dan pointed out. 2.0 screams on my P4. DOS has such a small overhead; and WG is like the OS for all intents and purposes.

Don

Toyduck · Post by **Toyduck** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:37 pm

dspain wrote:
Malakai wrote: i talked to toyduck last night and apparently thats what mud magic did but is bugged to only 5 rooms, well im at 22 rooms and still have allocated space for 9,722 more

Actually, I have it up on my system; I have it maxed at 15 rooms. It is quite fun; but there is limited things you can do in such a small place. I'm thinking on making it a 15 room battle arena where things constantly change.

But I am really waiting on the ability to create a larger interactive MUD.

Don

dspain · Post by **dspain** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:18 pm

Toyduck wrote:
dspain wrote:
Malakai wrote: i talked to toyduck last night and apparently thats what mud magic did but is bugged to only 5 rooms, well im at 22 rooms and still have allocated space for 9,722 more

Actually, I have it up on my system; I have it maxed at 15 rooms. It is quite fun; but there is limited things you can do in such a small place. I'm thinking on making it a 15 room battle arena where things constantly change.

But I am really waiting on the ability to create a larger interactive MUD.

Don
i should have that engine done to a playable testable level soon, the features i added were:

ability to create up to 20 classes and races
full items,spells,rooms editor

level4 config is where you setup your initial class and race and set the default rooms info.

the first beta release will basically be an interactive mud with everything except combat,door barriers,and a few other things.

with it you can create your races and classes with complete starting stats.
your items database, what shop they go in, how much they cost,etc.
your spells, price,mana cost,type

once im satisfied with this outcome i will slowly add combat and some perks.

Malakai · Post by **Malakai** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:34 am

It's good to know that mudmagic is so bugged, as I've considered registereing it a few times, to make a themed mud with but now I won't.

dspain · Post by **dspain** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:53 am

Malakai wrote:It's good to know that mudmagic is so bugged, as I've considered registereing it a few times, to make a themed mud with but now I won't.

ask don drake about the small mud engine i sent him...very nice for making a themed mud, he demo'd just a piece of the online database editor that allows making items on the fly.
very much potential in that. ill let ya know how it goes.