Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
Moderator: Mod Squad
Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
Is there a patch that will allow XP users to use WG Manager to access the BBS? If so..where?
Thanks!
Toyduck
Thanks!
Toyduck
Sysop of QuickSilver MBBS
http://www.quicksilvermbbs.com
http://www.hashhouse.net
http://www.dataware.info
http://informationware.com
http://www.quicksilvermbbs.com
http://www.hashhouse.net
http://www.dataware.info
http://informationware.com
Re: Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
arcticzone.dyndns.orgToyduck wrote:Is there a patch that will allow XP users to use WG Manager to access the BBS? If so..where?
Thanks!
Toyduck
file library WGSUTIL
i actually got 3 of em compiled in vb 6.0 but hell theres like what 14 left? lol
when i get it complete ill add it to the arcticzone WG# updates library
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Re: Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
Hello,dspain wrote: arcticzone.dyndns.org
file library WGSUTIL
i actually got 3 of em compiled in vb 6.0 but hell theres like what 14 left? lol
when i get it complete ill add it to the arcticzone WG# updates library
If you have a working copy of the client for WG I'd like to try it myself, last time I used it was about 96.....
Thanks
Computerhavok
Re: Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
make an acct on my bbs ill attach iot to an email, dont have my file archives up right now.computerhavok wrote:Hello,dspain wrote: arcticzone.dyndns.org
file library WGSUTIL
i actually got 3 of em compiled in vb 6.0 but hell theres like what 14 left? lol
when i get it complete ill add it to the arcticzone WG# updates library
If you have a working copy of the client for WG I'd like to try it myself, last time I used it was about 96.....
Thanks
Computerhavok
im going through and weeding anything out in there that is cracked or rick now owns.
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- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:56 am
- Location: Inverness, Florida
Re: Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
Ok, I jumped on your BBS!dspain wrote: make an acct on my bbs ill attach iot to an email, dont have my file archives up right now.
im going through and weeding anything out in there that is cracked or rick now owns.
I'll log back on later tonight or in the morning!
Thanks
Computerhavok
Re: Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
/quotecomputerhavok wrote:Ok, I jumped on your BBS!dspain wrote: make an acct on my bbs ill attach iot to an email, dont have my file archives up right now.
im going through and weeding anything out in there that is cracked or rick now owns.
I'll log back on later tonight or in the morning!
Thanks
Computerhavok
n/p man.
/end
Re: Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
This is a big item. I can't wait for this!dspain wrote:arcticzone.dyndns.orgToyduck wrote:Is there a patch that will allow XP users to use WG Manager to access the BBS? If so..where?
Thanks!
Toyduck
file library WGSUTIL
i actually got 3 of em compiled in vb 6.0 but hell theres like what 14 left? lol
when i get it complete ill add it to the arcticzone WG# updates library
Joe
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- Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:31 pm
- Location: Marion,Iowa
- Contact:
Worldgroup Manager
I have a zip that has everything you need to make the WG client work on XP
It works fine just like it was ment to be.
I have it in my new users files library at www.cedavalleybbs.com its called wgxpfix.zip
Logon with user name guest and pw hello
It works fine just like it was ment to be.
I have it in my new users files library at www.cedavalleybbs.com its called wgxpfix.zip
Logon with user name guest and pw hello
Sysop of CedarValley & CedarNet BBSes
CedarValley BBS online since Oct 1998 WG 3.20
CedarNet online since Oct 2005 WG 3.30
CedarValley BBS online since Oct 1998 WG 3.20
CedarNet online since Oct 2005 WG 3.30
Re: Worldgroup Manager
yeah we got a patch, we're talking about compiling the actual one to work under xp with no patching.banjaxster wrote:I have a zip that has everything you need to make the WG client work on XP
It works fine just like it was ment to be.
I have it in my new users files library at www.cedavalleybbs.com its called wgxpfix.zip
Logon with user name guest and pw hello
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- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:56 am
- Location: Inverness, Florida
Re: Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
Hello Toyduck!Toyduck wrote:Is there a patch that will allow XP users to use WG Manager to access the BBS? If so..where?
Thanks!
Toyduck
I used dspain patch and it worked great!
As he has said I'm sure he's working on a complete build so you don't have to use any patch! Yippeeee.......
Re: Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
Yes it does work good. Just hate having it switch me back to a lower video mode everytime I use it..how did we get along back then with only 16 bit color and 800x400....sheesh.computerhavok wrote:Hello Toyduck!Toyduck wrote:Is there a patch that will allow XP users to use WG Manager to access the BBS? If so..where?
Thanks!
Toyduck
I used dspain patch and it worked great!
As he has said I'm sure he's working on a complete build so you don't have to use any patch! Yippeeee.......
Toyduck
Sysop of QuickSilver MBBS
http://www.quicksilvermbbs.com
http://www.hashhouse.net
http://www.dataware.info
http://informationware.com
http://www.quicksilvermbbs.com
http://www.hashhouse.net
http://www.dataware.info
http://informationware.com
Re: Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
i remember buying a CGa from a rgb and thought i was god, i could play kingdom of kroz and see the grey enemies!Toyduck wrote:Yes it does work good. Just hate having it switch me back to a lower video mode everytime I use it..how did we get along back then with only 16 bit color and 800x400....sheesh.computerhavok wrote:Hello Toyduck!Toyduck wrote:Is there a patch that will allow XP users to use WG Manager to access the BBS? If so..where?
Thanks!
Toyduck
I used dspain patch and it worked great!
As he has said I'm sure he's working on a complete build so you don't have to use any patch! Yippeeee.......
Toyduck
Re: Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
Yeh, I remember buying a PCjr with enchanced 16 color CGA and playing the original King's Quest...what a time the wife and I had. A controllable cartoon..dspain wrote:i remember buying a CGa from a rgb and thought i was god, i could play kingdom of kroz and see the grey enemies!
I suppose if I went back a bit on screen res maybe I wouldn't need glassess....hmm
Sysop of QuickSilver MBBS
http://www.quicksilvermbbs.com
http://www.hashhouse.net
http://www.dataware.info
http://informationware.com
http://www.quicksilvermbbs.com
http://www.hashhouse.net
http://www.dataware.info
http://informationware.com
Re: Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
lol yeah i remember those, did ya have the tape drive too?Toyduck wrote:Yeh, I remember buying a PCjr with enchanced 16 color CGA and playing the original King's Quest...what a time the wife and I had. A controllable cartoon..dspain wrote:i remember buying a CGa from a rgb and thought i was god, i could play kingdom of kroz and see the grey enemies!
I suppose if I went back a bit on screen res maybe I wouldn't need glassess....hmm
i first did bbsing off of a tandy running tandy-dos connecting to a large bbs here in richmond running vbbs dialup.
i loved that bbs, went from wwiv-vbbs-mbbs-wg
just recently sold their server which had the 804 exclusive tele-arena license, 256 majormud, and like 3o other programs including dma server
etc to mudbbs.org
they firsdt started their bbs on an xt-8088, lol
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Re: Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
Heh, you made a very, very good statement!Toyduck wrote: Yes it does work good. Just hate having it switch me back to a lower video mode everytime I use it..how did we get along back then with only 16 bit color and 800x400....sheesh.
Toyduck
How and the h*ll did we?
Much easier going forward, then being forced to go backward and knowing you have better hardware and or software then that
Sigh....
Re: Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
I still have the entire setup packed away in the original boxes;dspain wrote:
lol yeah i remember those, did ya have the tape drive too?
i first did bbsing off of a tandy running tandy-dos connecting to a large bbs here in richmond running vbbs dialup.
i loved that bbs, went from wwiv-vbbs-mbbs-wg
just recently sold their server which had the 804 exclusive tele-arena license, 256 majormud, and like 3o other programs including dma server
etc to mudbbs.org
they firsdt started their bbs on an xt-8088, lol
PCjr, expanded memory sidecars to bring it to 640k; expanded chasis for a 10 mg HD and 2nd 5.25 floppy, cartridge & several cartridge games, and 1200 bd modem.
Ran my first BBS on it with RBBS.
I spent so much money on it, I guess that's why I never got rid of it like my later computers.
Sysop of QuickSilver MBBS
http://www.quicksilvermbbs.com
http://www.hashhouse.net
http://www.dataware.info
http://informationware.com
http://www.quicksilvermbbs.com
http://www.hashhouse.net
http://www.dataware.info
http://informationware.com
Re: Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
i know exactly what ya mean i still have an old 486 tucked away i ran a 2line mbbs on when i first started doing some tele-arena editing using taedit the sysop of the bbs gave me copies of her 2 3.5" disks of mbbs 6.0Toyduck wrote:I still have the entire setup packed away in the original boxes;dspain wrote:
lol yeah i remember those, did ya have the tape drive too?
i first did bbsing off of a tandy running tandy-dos connecting to a large bbs here in richmond running vbbs dialup.
i loved that bbs, went from wwiv-vbbs-mbbs-wg
just recently sold their server which had the 804 exclusive tele-arena license, 256 majormud, and like 3o other programs including dma server
etc to mudbbs.org
they firsdt started their bbs on an xt-8088, lol
PCjr, expanded memory sidecars to bring it to 640k; expanded chasis for a 10 mg HD and 2nd 5.25 floppy, cartridge & several cartridge games, and 1200 bd modem.
Ran my first BBS on it with RBBS.
I spent so much money on it, I guess that's why I never got rid of it like my later computers.
tele-arena 5.5i, and taedit.
all original 3.5" disks the thing is the pc i paid like $600 for it in 1995 and today i can spend 600 and build 2 amd-64/athlon-fx systems
the 486 has 8mb ram <<needed that to run doom fast, lol>>
15" svga, soundblaster-16, 250mb hd,boca-research 28.8 modem that thing was bad, oh yeah and my beast of an o/s ms-dos 6.22 and win 3.11 for workgroups
funyn thing is i have it all in the original boxes as well.
pc is gateway, before thye had the cow-looking boxes, lol
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- Contact:
Re: Worldgroup Manager XP patch?
I have a newer version of the xp patch and it doesnt require you to goto a lower video.Toyduck wrote:Yes it does work good. Just hate having it switch me back to a lower video mode everytime I use it..how did we get along back then with only 16 bit color and 800x400....sheesh.computerhavok wrote:Hello Toyduck!Toyduck wrote:Is there a patch that will allow XP users to use WG Manager to access the BBS? If so..where?
Thanks!
Toyduck
I used dspain patch and it worked great!
As he has said I'm sure he's working on a complete build so you don't have to use any patch! Yippeeee.......
Toyduck
bandit
Sysop of CedarValley & CedarNet BBSes
CedarValley BBS online since Oct 1998 WG 3.20
CedarNet online since Oct 2005 WG 3.30
CedarValley BBS online since Oct 1998 WG 3.20
CedarNet online since Oct 2005 WG 3.30
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- Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:30 pm
- Location: Margate, FL
Re: Worldgroup Manager
Has the new version been compiled?dspain wrote:yeah we got a patch, we're talking about compiling the actual one to work under xp with no patching.banjaxster wrote:I have a zip that has everything you need to make the WG client work on XP
It works fine just like it was ment to be.
I have it in my new users files library at www.cedavalleybbs.com its called wgxpfix.zip
Logon with user name guest and pw hello
-
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:42 pm
Yup - there's a fix.
I'm re-posting this, as part of this is taken from my introduction post from earlier today.
I'm a software developer and I have developed a new installation method for WorldGroup Manager that allows it to run on WinXP and 2003 with no user modifications or fixes of any kind (haven't tested it on Vista yet). So far so good.
It's a full 32-bit, single EXE, InstallShield install file, very polished and professional. The install file weighs in at just over 6MB and contains all Windows Installer engine necessities for all Win32 versions. It also sets up telnet and web links to the BBS in the Start Menu group, not just the client app and help file. It can have menu options for anythign else as well. And then there's that beautiful Uninstall option right there in the Start Menu that makes a very welcome addition to WGM.
To clarify, this new installation method of Worldgroup Manager does not run in any strange way on your computer. No hoops to jump through such as funky patches, graphics modes or containerized environments that have a bad habit or reorganizing your desktop when they fail to properly restore video resolution.
In a nutshell, it's the original 16-bit app you're installing with a nice new 32-bit InstallShield installer. This one, however, automatically adjusts itself depending on what OS you install it to so it will run properly, which has proven to make it solid as a rock. It's the real deal, and like I said, it's already up and running under XP and 2003 on my test boxes. No strange utilities or user fixes required, no unnecessary re-invented wheels. What has been re-invented, however, badly needed it and now looks like a million bucks.
Now here's the catch: it is a pre-configured InstallShield installer of WGM - it is not end-user configurable. Therefore, it will be released in two different flavors. One will be the free, no-frills, generic public version of the WGM client installer. It will install a plain, unconfigured version of WGM that runs under all Win32 environments up to Win2003. It will have web links to Gcomm.com, NetVillage.com, TheMajorBBS.com and Worldgroupware.com in the start menu along with help file, readme file and Uninstall option.
And then there's the made-to-order custom version. This version of the new WGM installer would be customized for any specific or individual BBS. Not only is it visually stunning and very specific to the BBS itself (graphics, EULA, text, everything), it will also contain any specific web and telnet links to the BBS along with the preconfigured WGM clinet. This version will have to be custm built manually for a small fee. A GUI BBS product of the past (PowerBBS) had a service like this, in which the GUI client was custom configured, recompiled and repackaged for specific BBSes for a minimal fee, anywhere from $25-$50 depending on what options are to be customized. I might have to take that route just because of the time involved as well as my interest in my hobbies paying for themselves if at all possible. Though this is far more of a custom client configuration than what PowerBBS offered, I would still keep it that cheap. When you see the additional features and configuration options of the BBS-specific demo, I think you'll agree it's worth the price of a typical video game. Regardless of what direction I take with this, it all works perfectly so far, so at least it's something new to offer to the Worldgroup/MBBS world as something that will soon be available.
I will be releasing the generic version in two weeks along with a fully customized version demo for everyone to try out. Hopefully they will be well received.
The WG/MBBS community really deserves a usable, updated GUI client. It's been way too long of a wait.
Highwinder
I'm a software developer and I have developed a new installation method for WorldGroup Manager that allows it to run on WinXP and 2003 with no user modifications or fixes of any kind (haven't tested it on Vista yet). So far so good.
It's a full 32-bit, single EXE, InstallShield install file, very polished and professional. The install file weighs in at just over 6MB and contains all Windows Installer engine necessities for all Win32 versions. It also sets up telnet and web links to the BBS in the Start Menu group, not just the client app and help file. It can have menu options for anythign else as well. And then there's that beautiful Uninstall option right there in the Start Menu that makes a very welcome addition to WGM.
To clarify, this new installation method of Worldgroup Manager does not run in any strange way on your computer. No hoops to jump through such as funky patches, graphics modes or containerized environments that have a bad habit or reorganizing your desktop when they fail to properly restore video resolution.
In a nutshell, it's the original 16-bit app you're installing with a nice new 32-bit InstallShield installer. This one, however, automatically adjusts itself depending on what OS you install it to so it will run properly, which has proven to make it solid as a rock. It's the real deal, and like I said, it's already up and running under XP and 2003 on my test boxes. No strange utilities or user fixes required, no unnecessary re-invented wheels. What has been re-invented, however, badly needed it and now looks like a million bucks.
Now here's the catch: it is a pre-configured InstallShield installer of WGM - it is not end-user configurable. Therefore, it will be released in two different flavors. One will be the free, no-frills, generic public version of the WGM client installer. It will install a plain, unconfigured version of WGM that runs under all Win32 environments up to Win2003. It will have web links to Gcomm.com, NetVillage.com, TheMajorBBS.com and Worldgroupware.com in the start menu along with help file, readme file and Uninstall option.
And then there's the made-to-order custom version. This version of the new WGM installer would be customized for any specific or individual BBS. Not only is it visually stunning and very specific to the BBS itself (graphics, EULA, text, everything), it will also contain any specific web and telnet links to the BBS along with the preconfigured WGM clinet. This version will have to be custm built manually for a small fee. A GUI BBS product of the past (PowerBBS) had a service like this, in which the GUI client was custom configured, recompiled and repackaged for specific BBSes for a minimal fee, anywhere from $25-$50 depending on what options are to be customized. I might have to take that route just because of the time involved as well as my interest in my hobbies paying for themselves if at all possible. Though this is far more of a custom client configuration than what PowerBBS offered, I would still keep it that cheap. When you see the additional features and configuration options of the BBS-specific demo, I think you'll agree it's worth the price of a typical video game. Regardless of what direction I take with this, it all works perfectly so far, so at least it's something new to offer to the Worldgroup/MBBS world as something that will soon be available.
I will be releasing the generic version in two weeks along with a fully customized version demo for everyone to try out. Hopefully they will be well received.
The WG/MBBS community really deserves a usable, updated GUI client. It's been way too long of a wait.
Highwinder
"Oh Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
Re: Yup - there's a fix.
I want one for m my bbs.
telnet://bbs.retrobbsgames.net
RetroBBS Games
Joe
telnet://bbs.retrobbsgames.net
RetroBBS Games
Joe
Highwinder wrote:I'm re-posting this, as part of this is taken from my introduction post from earlier today.
I'm a software developer and I have developed a new installation method for WorldGroup Manager that allows it to run on WinXP and 2003 with no user modifications or fixes of any kind (haven't tested it on Vista yet). So far so good.
It's a full 32-bit, single EXE, InstallShield install file, very polished and professional. The install file weighs in at just over 6MB and contains all Windows Installer engine necessities for all Win32 versions. It also sets up telnet and web links to the BBS in the Start Menu group, not just the client app and help file. It can have menu options for anythign else as well. And then there's that beautiful Uninstall option right there in the Start Menu that makes a very welcome addition to WGM.
To clarify, this new installation method of Worldgroup Manager does not run in any strange way on your computer. No hoops to jump through such as funky patches, graphics modes or containerized environments that have a bad habit or reorganizing your desktop when they fail to properly restore video resolution.
In a nutshell, it's the original 16-bit app you're installing with a nice new 32-bit InstallShield installer. This one, however, automatically adjusts itself depending on what OS you install it to so it will run properly, which has proven to make it solid as a rock. It's the real deal, and like I said, it's already up and running under XP and 2003 on my test boxes. No strange utilities or user fixes required, no unnecessary re-invented wheels. What has been re-invented, however, badly needed it and now looks like a million bucks.
Now here's the catch: it is a pre-configured InstallShield installer of WGM - it is not end-user configurable. Therefore, it will be released in two different flavors. One will be the free, no-frills, generic public version of the WGM client installer. It will install a plain, unconfigured version of WGM that runs under all Win32 environments up to Win2003. It will have web links to Gcomm.com, NetVillage.com, TheMajorBBS.com and Worldgroupware.com in the start menu along with help file, readme file and Uninstall option.
And then there's the made-to-order custom version. This version of the new WGM installer would be customized for any specific or individual BBS. Not only is it visually stunning and very specific to the BBS itself (graphics, EULA, text, everything), it will also contain any specific web and telnet links to the BBS along with the preconfigured WGM clinet. This version will have to be custm built manually for a small fee. A GUI BBS product of the past (PowerBBS) had a service like this, in which the GUI client was custom configured, recompiled and repackaged for specific BBSes for a minimal fee, anywhere from $25-$50 depending on what options are to be customized. I might have to take that route just because of the time involved as well as my interest in my hobbies paying for themselves if at all possible. Though this is far more of a custom client configuration than what PowerBBS offered, I would still keep it that cheap. When you see the additional features and configuration options of the BBS-specific demo, I think you'll agree it's worth the price of a typical video game. Regardless of what direction I take with this, it all works perfectly so far, so at least it's something new to offer to the Worldgroup/MBBS world as something that will soon be available.
I will be releasing the generic version in two weeks along with a fully customized version demo for everyone to try out. Hopefully they will be well received.
The WG/MBBS community really deserves a usable, updated GUI client. It's been way too long of a wait.
Highwinder
++++++++++++++++++++
Retro BBS Games
Telnet://bbs.retrobbsgames.net
++++++++++++++++++++
Retro BBS Games
Telnet://bbs.retrobbsgames.net
++++++++++++++++++++
Re: Yup - there's a fix.
wow, just like Wildcat does.Highwinder wrote:I'm re-posting this, as part of this is taken from my introduction post from earlier today.
I'm a software developer and I have developed a new installation method for WorldGroup Manager that allows it to run on WinXP and 2003 with no user modifications or fixes of any kind (haven't tested it on Vista yet). So far so good.
It's a full 32-bit, single EXE, InstallShield install file, very polished and professional. The install file weighs in at just over 6MB and contains all Windows Installer engine necessities for all Win32 versions. It also sets up telnet and web links to the BBS in the Start Menu group, not just the client app and help file. It can have menu options for anythign else as well. And then there's that beautiful Uninstall option right there in the Start Menu that makes a very welcome addition to WGM.
To clarify, this new installation method of Worldgroup Manager does not run in any strange way on your computer. No hoops to jump through such as funky patches, graphics modes or containerized environments that have a bad habit or reorganizing your desktop when they fail to properly restore video resolution.
In a nutshell, it's the original 16-bit app you're installing with a nice new 32-bit InstallShield installer. This one, however, automatically adjusts itself depending on what OS you install it to so it will run properly, which has proven to make it solid as a rock. It's the real deal, and like I said, it's already up and running under XP and 2003 on my test boxes. No strange utilities or user fixes required, no unnecessary re-invented wheels. What has been re-invented, however, badly needed it and now looks like a million bucks.
Now here's the catch: it is a pre-configured InstallShield installer of WGM - it is not end-user configurable. Therefore, it will be released in two different flavors. One will be the free, no-frills, generic public version of the WGM client installer. It will install a plain, unconfigured version of WGM that runs under all Win32 environments up to Win2003. It will have web links to Gcomm.com, NetVillage.com, TheMajorBBS.com and Worldgroupware.com in the start menu along with help file, readme file and Uninstall option.
And then there's the made-to-order custom version. This version of the new WGM installer would be customized for any specific or individual BBS. Not only is it visually stunning and very specific to the BBS itself (graphics, EULA, text, everything), it will also contain any specific web and telnet links to the BBS along with the preconfigured WGM clinet. This version will have to be custm built manually for a small fee. A GUI BBS product of the past (PowerBBS) had a service like this, in which the GUI client was custom configured, recompiled and repackaged for specific BBSes for a minimal fee, anywhere from $25-$50 depending on what options are to be customized. I might have to take that route just because of the time involved as well as my interest in my hobbies paying for themselves if at all possible. Though this is far more of a custom client configuration than what PowerBBS offered, I would still keep it that cheap. When you see the additional features and configuration options of the BBS-specific demo, I think you'll agree it's worth the price of a typical video game. Regardless of what direction I take with this, it all works perfectly so far, so at least it's something new to offer to the Worldgroup/MBBS world as something that will soon be available.
I will be releasing the generic version in two weeks along with a fully customized version demo for everyone to try out. Hopefully they will be well received.
The WG/MBBS community really deserves a usable, updated GUI client. It's been way too long of a wait.
Highwinder
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- Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:42 pm
Re: Yup - there's a fix.
Thanks, I was hoping to see a reply like this. It helps me know if there'd be an interest in this or not.ccs wrote:I want one for m my bbs.
telnet://bbs.retrobbsgames.net
RetroBBS Games
Joe
Just to confirm, am I to interpret your comment as an actual request for a BBS-specific, customized version of the WGM client?
Highwinder
"Oh Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
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- Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:42 pm
I would like to move conversation about the customized client project over to it's own thread. Here it is:
http://www.themajorbbs.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1301
http://www.themajorbbs.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1301
"Oh Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
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- Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:42 pm
Beta ready for download
The first full beta is available for download.
Please go to the thread devoted to this new XP/2003-compatible WGM client release for more information.
http://www.themajorbbs.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1301
Highwinder
Please go to the thread devoted to this new XP/2003-compatible WGM client release for more information.
http://www.themajorbbs.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1301
Highwinder
"Oh Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.